You you know what? I worried about whether or not I was communicating good things financially to the kids when they were growing up, but I did that. Now I'm Nana. I don't have to worry about that. That's for her mom to deal with and her dad.
Monnica:They gotta teach her good stuff.
Brad:And it's your job to spoil.
Monnica:Just like it's their job to teach her to eat good, healthy, nutritious food. When she's with me, if I wanna get her, I don't know, cotton candy, I can. Alright. Anyway, enough of that. Welcome back to the manual transmission powered by coffee, curiosity, and conversation.
Brad:We are Brad and Monica Manuel, partners in marriage, business, and way too many stories about getting it wrong with money. We tried budgeting once.
Monnica:Yeah. Until you discovered a line item labeled mugs.
Brad:Yeah. A whole category.
Monnica:It started as a joke. Remember, this was years ago. I accidentally broke one of your mugs and I felt really bad. I bought you
Brad:Was it one of these or what?
Monnica:No. No. This Okay. It was I don't even remember. It was just it was a mug.
Monnica:And I I took it to go to work or something and I dropped it. And I felt really bad. So I bought you a new one and you gave me a hard time. So I bought you like multiple.
Brad:You kept buying.
Monnica:Yeah. And then you would react every time I would buy one. So to get a reaction out of you, I started every holiday I'd get you like an actual present but I'd also include a mug just to like get under your skin. I don't know what that says about me. But then I discovered the Been There series mugs from Starbucks and I travel a lot.
Monnica:So I started bringing one home from everywhere I went. And now you have like 60 of them.
Brad:Literally.
Monnica:Yeah. Actually, it might be just And a couple a little new tickets. Mhmm. Okay. Before we get in too far though, let's do high low.
Monnica:It's been a tough week. We have a close family member that's dealing with some very scary health challenges, had had a brain tumor removed this week. And, of course, it it brings us all closer close together as a family. That's another thing money is for, by the way, is to be able to take care of health. So being able to to get the care needed is a is a gift.
Monnica:But, yeah, it's testing all of us. So it's a weird mix of high and low for me. Low because I'm sad and a bit nervous for, you know, our family member. But it's also a high because we're all pulling together. We spent some quality time together.
Monnica:My siblings are in all in town. My brother came back from Texas. My and and my sister-in-law. My sister and brother-in-law came back from their trip overseas prematurely to
Brad:The Ocho.
Monnica:Yeah. The
Brad:Ocho got back together.
Monnica:The Ocho's back together. Yeah. So it's a it's a mix. It's a high high and low. High because we're all together and low because we're dealing with some scary health stuff.
Monnica:But yeah. So the the four siblings and all of our spouses and the eight of us have gotten some good quality time together and with our kids, which has been really great. So, yeah, a week of highs and lows, which kind of mirrors this topic today, talking about money and marriage because if we're being honest, paychecks aren't aren't always even, but the partnership needs to be.
Brad:Right. We work and play as a team, and we win and lose as a team.
Monnica:Yeah. And you and I were business partners before we became life partners. And so, you know, over the years, raising kids, judge juggling judging too. Juggling careers, going back to school, you know, we each took turns being the unquote, breadwinner. And we both sacrificed so that one of us could be home when the kids got out of school.
Brad:I I grew up thinking that a good husband makes sure his wife doesn't have to work. I didn't even know I believed it. It was just it was an inherited belief. I think it was modeled to me in some weird way. May maybe more so, I think, on where we we grew up in the seventies, so seventies sitcoms families and the way that they were structured.
Brad:So media comes into play telling us how things are kind of supposed to be.
Monnica:Yeah. Yeah. But I never wanted to not work. I wanted to be married because I wanted to be married, not because I needed someone to support me.
Brad:So when our reality flipped, your career taking off, I had to set aside, I didn't have to, but I chose to set aside my career to be there for the kids. I understood it, but it still kinda messes with your identity a little bit.
Monnica:Yeah. I could especially with the, you know, the societal norms that are put on gender roles. So when life does give you different paychecks, different career paths, you know, we need to balance the emotional accounts. Like way back in the nineties, when we you and I were going through premarital counseling, remember they told us it's not fifty fifty, it's a 100 a 100. And so that was kind of the mentality I had going into it.
Monnica:But the way Brene Brown, I just saw a clip, she was explaining it. You know, sometimes so it's not fifty fifty. Like, her and her husband will check-in with each other. Like, do you what have you got? And and one of them might say, I've only got 20.
Monnica:And the other one will say, alright. I got the other 80. Don't worry. But if they're both low, they're both like, hey. Yeah.
Monnica:Yeah. 25 is where I'm at. Oh, yeah. Me too. Then they make a point of creating a plan to still be kind to each other.
Monnica:Because when you're depleted, especially if you're both depleted, I think the tendency to be inconsiderate or lack empathy or snap or just be unkind is just so much higher.
Brad:So it's never fifty fifty?
Monnica:I mean, I doubt maybe there's that perfect day, but it's probably not very common. But yeah. But because when it when money's not balanced balanced or, you know, energy isn't balanced, something sneaky can happen. You can
Brad:Yeah. There's that hidden hierarchy could show up in in old beliefs. One person starts feeling guilty for earning less. I know I've I've had thoughts about that.
Monnica:Either one of us can end up exhausted from carrying what feels like more, whether it's holding down the home front or our business or going and working for a demanding boss outside the home and our own business. Yeah, it can be hard, and and a lot of communication is required.
Brad:Yeah. The whole dynamic shifts until you stop measuring your worth by what you make.
Monnica:Yeah. And that's when it gets good again, when money just goes back to being math and and a means to an end and not its own meaning for from which you gather your identity and your value.
Brad:Yeah. I I think about we've started a few businesses together. We had to unlearn those expectations of who's supposed to be leading in various situations. Most of the time, you carried us financially like like we've been talking about. And there were times when when I I stepped in.
Brad:And the only thing that kept us from breaking was remembering we were building something together and that we shared the wins and the accountability for the losses. But we had to I think in that accountability part, I think we've had to, like, come back to the table occasionally where you felt like, listen. We need I I need to feel like we're in this together at at various times. I think I've even said it in in, different respects as well. But it's like every now and again, it's like you gotta reorient toward the direct you know, the direction you're heading.
Monnica:Yeah. And I think there's an evaluation of like, am I just am I keeping score? Am I giving credit? Do I need to give credit differently? Should I be keeping score?
Monnica:It's you know? And and I think it's natural to slip into that if you're not careful. But I think we have to also give credit differently, not just to the biggest deposit, but to the shared vision of, like you said, what we're building together. And it can be exhausting building and growing a business from scratch, for example. Or, you know, there's been times for each of us when we've been in school when you went back to get your MBA and you were dealing with the recovery from Guillain Barre, that's a different mental load.
Monnica:And yeah, I mean, it's just important to keep track of our I think it's that awareness for our own energy and then the communication to share where we're at and what we need because we can't expect each other to be mind readers, but also like the the responsibility to check-in and say, how are you? What do you need?
Brad:Right. All while trying to make the money and make sure that money's still coming And, I mean, we've as we think about, like, setting up the future, that ability to establish the wealth. When I think about wealth, I think about our that agency, our ability to make the decisions that we want when we want. We've always talked about that. That's what it's always been about.
Brad:Do we get to choose what matters? Are we and are we in sync about what we're actually building? And that goes back to that alignment, that frequency and alignment.
Monnica:Right. And that's the real power balance, being able to create and recreate together. And that requires honesty, consistency, you know, making sure we both feel heard and seen and safe to express the needs and ideas. And I think that it goes back to awareness as well. You know, what do I want and why do I actually want that?
Monnica:Because one thing I've learned for myself over the, you know, almost thirty years we've been married is a lot of that time, some of my aspirations were driven by the need to prove myself or thoughts about what someone else might think. And it's so liberating to, I'm not saying I have this totally figured out yet, but like realizing what someone else thinks of me is just none of my business. It's about what I think of me and what I actually want. And so, yeah, what want materialistically has really changed. I prefer tennis shoes and jeans and a good crew neck sweatshirt in the winter and a t shirt in the summer.
Monnica:And you know, if I have to get dressed up for something special, I better really be special. Also I think perimenopause really has something to do with that. I'm like, I don't care what anybody thinks, just screw you. What's interesting is money really is like a mirror, not a measure. It's it it shows you what you value.
Monnica:Because if you wanna know what you value, go and look at where your money goes. What do you care about? And I think to the point we were just talking about, what we care about has changed dramatically over the years. I feel like you're you haven't changed as much. You've always been pretty content and not really needing a whole lot.
Monnica:And I've been the I've been a lot. I can see I can see the the memories flashing across your face as I say that. You can see that my values have changed over the decades because, you know, what I used to put money toward has drastically changed. I care much more about experiences and the people in our lives and freedom than I do about things. And so I I spend a lot less money on things.
Monnica:Our our sweet son is now a a finance professional, so he's got us straightened out.
Brad:I think he's trying to straighten
Monnica:He's very patient.
Brad:He's very patient.
Monnica:He's also very bossy. Yeah. But that's okay. He's smart. He knows what he's doing.
Monnica:I like to listen. Yeah. Mostly.
Brad:Mostly.
Monnica:Until he tells me something I don't wanna do, and then I just tell him too bad. I'm the boss. But what's interesting is even in the hard stuff, money always shows up somehow. You know, how we handle uncertainty, how we how generous we are, who steps in, hold who holds it together.
Brad:That uncertainty is a big one. We were talking about that basically all week.
Monnica:Yeah. Because there was a lot of uncertainty we were dealing with this And
Brad:how much stress that it brings into the equation. And if you could just recognize that sometime while you're in it, just acknowledge, hey. Some of what I'm feeling, some of what is going on is because I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's next.
Monnica:Yeah. And I, that is very diff it's its own stressor by itself. And then depending on, you know, the stakes of the uncertainty, it can really just ratchet up quick. But what I found very helpful throughout this period of some pretty big high stakes uncertainty was to shift some time and attention to some things I could control. So I worked a lot, honestly.
Monnica:That was very helpful. And, you know, lots of good conversations that we had and with my family, but also just during the day, it just felt good to go work. Not all couples wanna work together. We work together. I've I like working with you.
Brad:I like working with you.
Monnica:And I think that there's been times when we've gotten the dynamics, you know, out of balance and had to really reconcile and like you said, align. But I think for the most part, I don't know, our personalities complement one another in that way. We're pretty lucky and we communicate proactively. And we've had a lot of we've done a lot of work around awareness and communication that
Brad:Still working on it.
Monnica:We're still working on it. But had we had those tools early on, it probably would have been more enjoyable. But I think through the years where it was not enjoyable, we had a lot of discipline to make choices and stick by them. We still do that from time to time for the most part. We just enjoy working together, I think.
Brad:We, from the very beginning, created a joint account.
Monnica:Oh, yeah. We've always had we've always just approached I guess that's not everybody does that, but I was just we weren't we weren't even presented any options. It was just the two shall become one, and what's yours is mine, and what's mine is yours, and we have just always it that way.
Brad:Yes. We've always just I mean, again, back to you're making more money than I am. There are times when I'm able to contribute, but more
Monnica:so There's been times when you made more than me or earlier on. But once we made that call for you to be the coach and the one who was home, I just you lost momentum with the, you know, with in the in the corporate world, and so you had to build your own thing. Whatever gender you are, if you are in a partnership and you guys decide as a couple to have one person stay home with the kids and pause their career, there's a massive wage penalty to taking that break. And so, you know, even though you went back and got your master's and and have done all this work, you you pay a big wage penalty for having been out. So the solution for us was back in 2018, we started our own company.
Monnica:And that's been how you've, you know, regained your footing because you had you just became your own boss. Because corporate America does not reward parents for taking a break to be with kids.
Brad:I wouldn't have it any other way right now.
Monnica:Oh, I know. I think you might be unhirable at this point.
Brad:I might be. I might be. So
Monnica:I wish everyone could see the smile on your face. I I don't know if it's a smile or a shit eating grin.
Brad:Wow. I'm a happy man.
Monnica:I know you are.
Brad:I'm a kept man.
Monnica:That makes me happy. You're not a kept man. No? Well, maybe.
Brad:How many times have we made big financial mistakes?
Monnica:Oh, my gosh. It'd be easier to list the years we didn't. Yeah, we've made some big mistakes. I think we would have done better if we had had any education on it. But we got married young.
Monnica:We had only gone to high school. I think Gen X is this interesting sandwich generation between the boomers and the millennials. And, you know, some people are in that place where boomers are now, I just saw an article about it, they're passing down all this wealth. Yeah. That's not us.
Monnica:That's not the situation we're in. But millennials are in a tough spot. They are really, you know, they can't afford houses. In the last fifty years, since 1980, forty five years since 1980, the cost of houses have gone up by like 300%. Cost of education has gone up by 300%.
Monnica:Healthcare, 300%. Education, healthcare, childcare, cost of living, cost of housing, they've all gone up two fifty, three fifty percent. And wages have not kept up with that. So they're in a tough spot. And so a lot of Gen X is really helping both the boomers and the millennials.
Monnica:And so we're the sandwich situation. Good thing we were raised on, you know, Punky Brewster and Latchkey Kids and Go Go Gadget and Fight of the Navigator and Space Camp. I'm pulling out all the good ones. We're just gritty.
Brad:I was gonna say, we have a a certain level of grit about Alright. That's this week's transmission in the books.
Monnica:If we sound a little less energetic than normal, it's because we've had a pretty challenging week. But I think partnership gets you through the tough weeks. Money doesn't money's a tool that helps with the the the stuff you need through the hard stuff. But it's the partnership that really gets you through the tough the tough times. So I'm grateful that you're my partner, Brad.
Brad:I am grateful that you are my partner.
Monnica:Hey. So here's a question. Yep. If there was one thing I could do that would make your comfort with or assessment of how I handle the finances 10% better, what would it be?
Brad:You've done it with me before where you said, hey, come in here. And you already had the budget open when you have, like, a vision for, like, what's happening over the next six months.
Monnica:Okay. I can do that. I didn't know you wanted me to do that. Usually, feel like you're like, I have to get you to come pay attention to it because you're just not that interested in it.
Brad:That's exactly it.
Monnica:Oh, okay. So I read that right. But you want me to do it.
Brad:You read it great, but I'm just saying
Monnica:It's a good thing you trust me.
Brad:Why wouldn't I?
Monnica:Well, you should, but I'm glad that you do because
Brad:Shouldn't I?
Monnica:I mean, I guess if you did, you'd ask more questions.
Brad:Your question you asked me. 10%.
Monnica:I mean, I think well, I think show showing some interest occasionally, I guess. Yeah. I pretty much have to ask you to come and look occasionally because I figure you should know. Usually, well, the questions come up when I'm like, hey, we're gonna renovate the kitchen.
Brad:Yeah.
Monnica:And you say, so this happened recently. You said, you asked me a question about the appliances I picked because I had to give you the specs for all the appliances.
Brad:Yeah.
Monnica:And you said, how much did that all cost?
Brad:And yeah.
Monnica:And what was my answer?
Brad:It was there was no number involved.
Monnica:Well, I said two words.
Brad:A lot?
Monnica:I said too much. Too And that was the end of it.
Brad:Okay. So this is exactly why we're talking about money right now.
Monnica:So I don't know. You gotta find what works for you. We aren't trying to give anybody advice. We're just talking about what we've been through.
Brad:What we are going through.
Monnica:What we are going through. Okay. So you're gonna show more interest, I'm gonna show you a presentation.
Brad:Yeah. I'm not looking for, you know, a PowerPoint, but a snapshot. As far as the bills
Monnica:Wait a minute. Can I change my answer?
Brad:Oh, Here we go.
Monnica:Here's my here's my The
Brad:real 10%.
Monnica:Okay. This is what I actually want.
Brad:This ought to be good.
Monnica:I want you to go through, log in to your credit card, and figure out what subscriptions are in there that you don't need, and cancel them. That's what I want.
Brad:This should be like a sponsored by Rock Ocean
Monnica:What's that what's that service?
Brad:I don't know.
Monnica:Rocket something.
Brad:Is
Monnica:it Where they'll like cancel your, you can aggregate all your
Brad:Yeah.
Monnica:Subscriptions in one place and cancel. Yeah. It'd be this would be a great spot for an ad for that. I don't care how you do it. I just want you to find the ones that
Brad:Were you gonna do use a different f word?
Monnica:I I was. And I changed it to a productive one. Find find
Brad:Yes.
Monnica:The ones that don't that, you know, are a waste of money and cancel them.
Brad:Okay. So you would prefer that over more interest in the finances Yep. Than you?
Monnica:Yep. I'll trade you. I don't wanna change my answer. Okay. Good luck editing this.
Brad:I know.
Monnica:Okay. Till next week. Have a great week.
Brad:If something sparked a question or hit close to home, tell us about it.
Monnica:Yeah. We love hearing what connects and what challenges you. Your feedback keeps this podcast a living pain. Till next time. Stay kind.
Monnica:Stay curious. May your coffee be strong.
Brad:And your conversation stronger.